Restrictions

Restrictions

Postby Dark Phoenix » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:05 pm

Henceforth, the following groups must meet special requirements in order to be allowed to enter the city. They may meet councilars outside the city gates or be escorted directly into the council chambers when council in in session.
I. Dynasts:
A. Dynasts must agree to oaths administered to by an eclipse or failing that taken while under careful truth detecting magic to:
i. Not to enter sensitive military or government areas without permission of the council
ii. Not break any laws of the city
iii. Not to incite strife with any member of the population,
iv. Not to gather intelligence on the city workings or layout.

II. Fae/Rakasha/Beings originating from the wyld or any servants or the aforementioned beings.
A. Fae must agree to oaths administered to by an eclipse or failing that taken while under careful truth detecting magic. In addition they are to swear their own magically binding oaths. All oaths will include:
i. Not to enter sensitive military or government areas without permission of the council
ii. Not break any laws of the city
iii. Not to incite strife with any member of the population,
iv. Not to gather intelligence on the city workings or layout.
v. Not to feed on anyone while in the city, willing or not.
a. They may feed on ambient emotions in the air.
vi. Not to use their magics to effect the mind of another without permission of the council.
vii. Conduct themselves ways so that they minimize public disturbance when possible.
B. On a case by case basis, the council is authorized to request a faes hearts grace for safe keeping.
III. Deathknights/Abyssals
A. Deathknights must agree to oaths administered to by an eclipse to:
i. Not to enter sensitive military or government areas without permission of the council
ii. Not break any laws of the city
iii. Not to incite strife with any member of the population,
iv. Not to gather intelligence on the city workings or layout.
v. Not enter areas central food/potable water storage areas or where large populations of children or pregnant women congregate
vi. They must also swear that they are no longer loyal followers of the neverborn, deathlords, or any other creatures of darkness and that they mean no ill will towards the city.



He thinks that they should also include exceptions that allow flexiblity in case of life and death situations.
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Dark Phoenix » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:11 am

As a note.. again.. these are proposals for discussion.. Not official.
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Tycon » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:15 am

Hearing Warden's proposition for restrictions on the races Loken would request the following changes with the given reasons:

First the removal of:
i. Not to enter sensitive military or government areas without permission of the council
ii. Not break any laws of the city
iii. Not to incite strife with any member of the population,
iv. Not to gather intelligence on the city workings or layout.

from the sections on Dynasts, Fae, and Deathknights, because first i, iii, and iv should all be implicit in ii, and they are all laws that should usniversally apply to all citizens of Denandsor. Suggesting they be replaced with something of the form, "Abide by all laws and rules that are applicable to the citizens of Denandsor and it's surrounding territories."

Second he would inquire what a Heart Grace was, and if it was explained to him suggest removing section II subsection B, as it is something that should happen in rare and exceptional cases, require the full agreement of the council, and should not be codified as an actual possibility with in these rules.

Third he would suggest when the time comes to disscuss laws directly, that some things that require "the permission of the council" should be able to be granted by any councilor and rescended by any other until disscussion can be had so as not to require full disscussion on every little exception.
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Dark Phoenix » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:18 am

If anything.. these are more severe than anything that will be approved. a shotgun approach is used and then unneeded parts are edited out.
Last edited by Dark Phoenix on Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Dark Phoenix » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:25 am

IN response warden says

"I agree that these are all laws all citizens will be required to abide by. However we have not yet codified the laws. We wish to ensure that people can come in quickly so we must get something up and going . WE dont have a codified law code yet so by stating these requirements they can swear viable oaths"

in response to the codification of the hearts grace

"This is only for truely problematic fae. Ones that are a possible danger despite the oaths. We must codify it now however or else we wont have justification for asking for it later as it wont have any backing.

As for your last message

" I am not comfortable with allowing any one consular the ability to extend or rescend such things. Its far to open for abuse. Any formal action as a council should require a council vote. Exceptions being specific powers vested in individuals as part of their responsibilities.
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Tycon » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:45 am

"Then perhaps we should declare those 4 things, or 3 things, as being the first laws of the city now, and then shrink it down to the one requirement I suggested for the oath for the restricted groups. That way we then have a starting point for the actual Laws of the city and we don't need to spell out a lot of specific rules for the restricted groups."

"Also I am still not comfortable with the Heart Grace section. With a full 5 votes right now the council can do just about anything, we don't need to have that as a specified rule to be able to do it. My concern is by stating it explicitly it may be reached for too quickly and not be treated as the truly exceptional thing it should be. From what I understand that is essentially a level of slavery, we are not about to make a law or rule that any person can be taken as a slave at the discretion of the council are we? How would this be different?"

"And we can talk about this later with other laws, it just seems like if every person that may want to access a restricted area needs a full council vote to do so, then some things could get quite tedious. I will drop the matter for now though."
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Dark Phoenix » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:14 am

Thats the thing. I dont think that even with five full votes we should be able to do anything.

we need to limit our own power. Say what is above us and what we cannot do. The people deserve to have.. I dont know. Certain Inallienable rights..
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Duke of Mirrors » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:23 am

As a notice to the players these actions and reactions are because of a mutable living world. Intolerance and racism are vary touchy subjects. Such things can not be overcome overnight. The fall of thorn, the fall of lookshy, the balorian crusade, and the immaculate faith. All of these things cause NPCs and PCs alike to have unique and some what 'flavored' views of the world they live in. Policies placed should reflect this as well, but at the end of the day please remember this is a game. So please if you have OOC complaints please speak with the staff and most importantly have fun!
To indulge unevenly in any single shade of passion’s spectrum is to demonstrate excessive focus.
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Tycon » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:40 am

"I agree actually. However that is for a different disscussion, for the moment we essentially have unlimited authority, and the major block for anything particularly bad happening is the fact that getting all 5 of us to agree on something is unlikely. Let's hope up that holds until we start making laws we don't have the authority to change. Right now I don't think the right for us to take the Heart Grace should be codified in these restictions, instead it belongs in whatever rules we end up deciding on for emergency situations, with whatever equivalents exist for other people."
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Re: Restrictions

Postby ChocolateRaisins » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:52 am

As the council meeting was open to the public. Revels in Conflict, a know fae would point out to the council something.

"These rules as posted are the equivalent of declaring Dynasts, Fae and Deathknights as enemies of the state. This is a poor message to send to not only these groups, but also to the rest of the world. Is this the message that the council wishes the world to see of this new city?

To even request a Fae's Heart Grace is the equivalent of saying "You must enslave yourself to the council to enter the city." If such a rule was put into place concerning solars (Who over the course of history have done more damage to creation than the Fae) would incite riot.

In a world where Exalts must travel, fight and have their own duties, to make it so that the entire council must agree to something will create a lot of trouble. I suggest a rule that two councilors together can make a temporary ruling, however at the next council meeting the council can re-discuss it.

The phrase "Not to incite strife with any member of the population." is too vague. Any person with a grievance with a restricted person could use this to have them exiled. Your solar councilor I believe has the right idea in that you should create the laws of the city, and any fae should follow the laws.

"Not to use their magics to effect the mind of another without permission of the council." This should be made more specific. A fae's (or lunar or solar's for that matter) natural talents and form will often times blur this line. Rewording this to "No one shall use magics to force themselves upon another's mind." and make this a universal law would protect the city to a greater extent. A solar's magics in this arena are far more dangerous than any Fae's. This would be something I would agree to.

I simply ask that you consider what is said from a logical view, and not by who said it."
TPO Izuada and Last Vision Torn
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