Restrictions

Re: Restrictions

Postby Tycon » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:54 pm

Looking at Warden, "Technically we agreed that members of the Scarlet Dynasty would only be allowed on an -exceptional basis-. In reality given the way the system currently works, all of the restricted or banned groups are in the same boat, needing an exception by the council, which currently would require a unanimous vote, to be allowed to enter or live in the city. This vote would actually change that by needing only a majority vote to allow in Dynasts, Fae, and Deathknight. But in the hopes of getting this handled, I will withdraw Dynasts from that part of the vote."
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Re: Restrictions

Postby admin » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:11 pm

Meheka Carn would lean back and fold his arms which strained the material of the Lookshian uniform he still stubbornly wore

We have agreed time and time again that these 3 groups should be restricted in much the same way. Why do we keep dragging this mess out? Each one should be watched, restricted and require an Oath for their time within the city.
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Arianhro » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:18 pm

(Since Council is Open, Reign on one of her brief trips into the city to come before council will raise a hand to speak)

I think perhaps you're looking at this overmuch. Putting too much restrictions on any oath can be dangerous. For example...

2. Not gather intelligence on the city workings or layout without permission of the council.

Does this by interpretation mean you can't travel around the city for fear of building a mental map, like anyone would, and thus having intelligence on the layout without permission? I think you're going into too find detail on things. Just ban groups, and then rescind the ban on case by case basis. You don't NEED so much specifics when you can just make case by case exceptions. And your fixation on oaths means that all this debate could be futile if this Eclipse you're considering not executing after all just decides he wants to leave and go south. What happens to all these laws then? There are no longer exceptions, even amongst people who are after risking everything in order to help the people of Lookshy?

And even if you were to fixate on oaths you may have no power to enforce. Another example of the dangers of your specifics...


2. Not enter central food/potable water storage areas or areas where large populations of children or pregnant women congregate.

Without the mental map stated above, how is this possible? You round a corner... and there it is, a hoard of pregnant women meeting up by a fountain. Oops your oath is broken, through no fault of your own.

Can't we just accept that these groups are banned, and move on to allowing each to petition for entry? There is so much more the Council has to do....

((Moonlit Reign))
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Tycon » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:27 pm

(In the interest of putting this topic to bed and because I believe we are all mostly in agreement, I think the following should be considered as law/a decision by the council unless someone objects in the next 48 hours real time)

All citizens of Denandsor will swear:

'I swear to follow all laws of Denandsor and its territories, as well as the decisions of the council of Denandsor for as long as I am within its borders.'

Members of a restricted group who wish to become citizens shall swear the same oath. Magical reinforcement may be used, as deemed nessecary by the council.

The following shall become laws of Denandsor:

A. All who reside within the city of Denandsor or its territories shall:
1. Not enter sensitive military or government areas without permission of the council.
2. Not gather intelligence on the city workings or layout without permission of the council.
3. Not use magic or other supernatural ability to effect the mind of another without permission of the council.
4. Not attempt to incite widespread strife or begin any kind of uprising against the lawful government of Denandsor.

B. All Fae who reside within the city of Denandsor or its territories shall:
1. Not feed on anyone while in the city of Denandsor or its territories, willing or not.
2. May feed on ambient emotions in the air.
3. Conduct themselves in ways so that they minimize public disturbance when possible.

C. All Deathknights who reside within the city of Denandsor or its territories shall:
1. Swear that they are no longer loyal followers of the neverborn, deathlords, or any other creatures of darkness.
2. Not enter central food/potable water storage areas or areas where large populations of children or pregnant women congregate.

D. Any Fae or Deathknight who petitions to become a citizen of Denandsor needs only a majority vote by the council to be granted citizenship.
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Arianhro » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:48 pm

((For the sake of not screwing over players at a later date I'd re-emphasise the flaws Reign pointed out in the wording of two of those points. Oaths don't pay attention to intent, they follow wording. Just my 2 cents.))
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Re: Restrictions

Postby arlais » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:02 pm

Arianhro wrote:((For the sake of not screwing over players at a later date I'd re-emphasise the flaws Reign pointed out in the wording of two of those points. Oaths don't pay attention to intent, they follow wording. Just my 2 cents.))


((my understanding is with an ECLPISE oath, that intent does count, a FAE oath depends on wording.. but that is an ST call))
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Tycon » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:16 pm

(Part of my problem here is I really don't want to restart the clock on this, however if no one objects Loken would buy Reign's argument after a little bit of disscussion and change the 2 laws in question to:

A. 2. Not gather intelligence on the city workings or layout for a person or group who opposes the interests of Denandsor without permission of the council.

C. 2. Make their best effort to avoid entering central food/potable water storage areas or areas where large populations of children or pregnant women congregate, and finding themselves in such an area shall make their best effort to leave as soon as possible.

If there is an objection to one of these changes then the old versions would be kept. If there is an objection to both, then it's back to the drawing board...)
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Dark Phoenix » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:13 am

At this point warden is willing to agree.. But he needs a finalized document and he also thinks that fae and deathknights should also follow the dynast restrictions.
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Tycon » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:17 am

(Just for OOC clarity, what Dynast restrictions? As far as I know there are no restrictions specific to them proposed or otherwise.)
Last edited by Tycon on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Restrictions

Postby Dark Phoenix » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:31 am

seems they were stripped out *shrugs*
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