Election and Removal proposal

Re: Election and Removal proposal

Postby blackshade10 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:40 am

"Yes, writing your own proposal to get what you want. That most certainly is proof you aren't stalling the process to get what you want at all." Soul rolls his eyes.


"The specifics of 'what defines Yozi worship' is what is defined by the courts, a legal matter. I certainly am for discussing the details of such things, but I don't think hammering out the specifics on this particular proposal is what is needed. Yozi worship should absolutely be banned, and it should be extrapolated into detail on the criminal side. If it's THAT much of a concern, then just have it say those convicted of a crime are removed from the council. That lets us get this in anyway."


"REQUIRING every thing voted by an incomplete council be done, instead of simply a new councilor calling for a revote, adds an unnecessary level of bureaucracy. If they're concerns, any councilor can bring them up."
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Re: Election and Removal proposal

Postby The Redneck » Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:12 am

((Misread the third issue, so minor changes made to correct))

*Loksha shakes his head.* Loken Ryo, two of the sections you speak of were just changed to meet the specifications you demanded earlier--sometimes, in ways the rest of the council found detrimental, simply to satisfy your whims. Now you're still trying to claim that it's not acceptable? How can they not be resolved to your satisfaction when they are ~your words~?

Do you really think that anybody in this council chamber--or outside of it--is actually naive enough to believe you're not stonewalling because your constituents have made it clear you do not represent them and as soon as you allow the council to actually represent the people you'll be out on your ass? Do you truly think the Solar Exalted will simply forget their several grievances against you? You're clumsy, Loken--if you must pull such a stunt, at least do so in a manner that does not insult the intelligence of every single citizen of this city.

Do you truly feel that "our counselor must not be a yozi-worshipper" was "shot down"? I have a different opinion of the term "shot down"--yet, in what I already know is a futile attempt to stop you from delaying, we'll strike it from the proposal.

The section regarding the Jade and Marble seats has already been changed. Quibbling about the wording when it clears up the confusion you tried to place is beyond ridiculous. Nonetheless, despite its complete lack of necessity, we'll add it in.

A month is more than long enough for a counselor to look over issues. Setting things up so that a new counselor must scramble to keep the city running is a ridiculous notion.

Finally, we added this effective veto--despite the fact that I thought then and think now it was a poor idea--specifically because you demanded it. The fact that we did not have this veto was your excuse for voting against it last time. Now you tell us that this is flawed, and that its presence is a viable excuse to prevent you from voting on it?


Counselor Selection:

The group relevant to the vacant seat proposes a Counselor Elect. The Counselor Elect must be validated by the group he or she represents, by that group's chosen methods. Once that validation is complete the candidate takes the Oath of Office, sanctified by a Solar Exalt of the Eclipse Caste, and gains the appropriate Seat as a Counselor. The default process for selecting a Councilor Elect for every group is outlined below. If a group wishes to change their system a proposal must be made to the Denandsor Council outlining the new method, and have the support of at least three quarters of the current members of that group living in the city or its territories.

A member of a group is defined as someone who meets the criteria of the group, and has been living in Denandsor or one its territories for at least 3 months. Once someone is named apart of a specific group, they can only change groups with the approval of their current representative and the current representative of the group they wish to join. If a member has not verified their presence either in person or by verified proxy within 3 months they are no longer considered a member of their former group.

The five groups are recognized as Yugashi, Lookshyans, Solars, Lunars, and the remaining inhabitants of the city. Their membership requirements are as follows:
  • Yugashi: A Yugashi is acknowledged as one by holder of the Gemstone Seat, the Yugashi government, or one of its representatives.
  • Lookshyan: A Lookshyan is a former of age Citizen or Helot of Lookshy, or is accepted into a family of such, or acknowledged as such by the current holder of the Jade Seat.
  • Solar: A Solar is Solar exalt, or a child of such with solar powers and acknowledged as such by the Solar councilor.
  • Lunar: A Lunar is Lunar exalt, or a child of such with lunar powers and acknowledged as such by the Lunar councilor.
  • Not apart of the above: A citizen of Denandsor who is at least 16 years of age and not a member of any other group.

The default processes for selecting a councilor elect are as follows:
  • Gemstone Seat (Yugashi): The holder of the Gemstone Seat is directly appointed by the local Yugashi government, through a notice to the council.
  • Jade Seat (Lookshyan): The holder of the Jade Seat is selected by a majority of votes cast among the voting populace of the Lookshyans, verified by appropriate voting auditors.
  • Gold Seat (Solar): The holder of the Gold Seat is affirmed by a majority of all members of the Solar group before the council. How they are selected is up to the group.
  • Silver Seat (Lunar): The holder of the Silver Seat is affirmed by a majority of all members of the Lunar group before the council. How they are selected is up to the group.
  • Marble Seat (Everyone else): The holder of the Marble Seat is selected by a majority of votes cast amongthe voting populace of those not affiliated with another group.


Eligibility

To be eligible for the position of Councillor, the nominee must fulfill the following requirements:

  • S/he must be a resident of Denandsor.
  • S/he must have lived in Denandsor for at least 3 seasons.
  • S/he must not be part of the Sub-Council of Election Supervision. If a nominee attempts to become a Councillor, they surrender their place in the Sub-Council Pool (See below)
  • S/he may not have committed crimes which, according to the judiciary committee, would make him/her ineligible for office


Elections

For those groups that choose elections, when an election is called for the position of a Councillor, the affected group have one season to tally nominees and make their decision. Nominee should state their intention to run for the position at the beginning of this period, but if all nominees are slain, captured or otherwise rendered incapable of participating, others may join in the race later then the start.

During the Season, the nominee are free to garner support, with the following restrictions:

  • S/he may not use charms, sorcery or artifacts that warp another's mind in an unnatural fashion. Charms or other factors that allow a candidate to speak more persuasively or better understand the group's desires are explicitly permitted.
  • S/he may not use threats of violence, blackmail or other types of extortion to garner votes.
  • S/he may not try to frame election violations on other nominees.
  • S/he may not try to rig the selection of Observers.
  • S/he may not employ others to commit the above actions on his/hers behalf.

The election will be supervised by the Sub-Council of Election Supervision, who can vote on whether or not a violation has occurred. Nominee should keep in mind that the Sub-Council are encouraged to use their own discretion to follow the SPIRIT of the rule, rather then the letter, and any attempt to circumvent it or trying to be clever about it will likely result in being ruled to be in violation of the rule. Any nominee who are judged to be in violation is immediately disqualified. Any nominee who is ruled to be in violation in three separate elections (or especially horrendous breaches) is barred from taking part in future elections and will face legal repercussions to match the crime.

The final vote is cast at the end of the season and the winner is decided. Citizens who are away from the city at this time on official business--such as soldiers on campaign--may cast their vote by proxy. The Councillor swears the sanctified oath of office and may begin serving.


The Sub-Council of Election Supervision

This three-member sub-council is a temporary one that comes together whenever an election is to be held and use the title 'Observer'. The role of the sub-council is to watch the election procedure for violations and report them as appropriate.

The Sub-Council has a rotating cast of Observers, to prevent the accumulation of power or sloth, and the sitting panel is replaced with every election. Every Councillor may nominate two Observers, who are then added to a pool, and the panel of observers are decided by lottery. Observers swear a sanctified oath to do their duty with honesty and integrity, and let nothing tempt them from doing so.

The nomination of an Observer may be blocked by a majority vote of the Council.


Removal

A Councillor can be removed from his position in the following ways.

  • If s/he is convicted of any crime in which the Judicial sub-council recommends the counselor's removal from office, or in which the counselor is prevented (such as by imprisonment) from performing his or her duties. Counselors indicted for crimes may not be tried by the Council--if a Justice Sub-comittee is unable to reach a unanimous judgement three times in a row, the majority opinion of all nine judges shall determine the guilt of the accused.
  • By a vote of no confidence by a majority of the Councillor's Representative group (a petition containing at least 10% of the group, or a minimum of two people, can call for such a vote. Each subsequent petition for a vote of no confidence within a five-year period will require an additional 10% of the voting population--the second must contain at least 20% to be valid, the third must contain 30%, etc.--to a maximum of 50%) When such a petition is brought to the Council, the Counselor may dispute its veracity, in which case one month will be given to investigation by the Sub-Council of Election Supervision. For the Gold and Silver Seats, this vote will be taken of all of-age members of the corresponding group. For the Jade and Marble Seats, majority will decided relative to the voting populace.
  • In case of the Yugashi counselor, by decision of the Yugashi government via a notice to the Council.
  • If the counselor should die, resign, or abandon his or her duties for more than one month without stated reason or expectation that he or she will return.

If a Councillor is removed, a new election is called with all the rules mentioned above.


Unfilled Seats

While the Council has less than its full complement of five members:

Decisions which would normally require unanimous consent among the Council may not change any current law (although new law may be established) or modify election procedures in any way.

Unanimous decisions made by an incomplete council can be called into question by new counselors within the first month of their gaining the seat after the absence in which the decision was made. Subsequent counselors will not be able to call into question decisions made by absences that they did not personally fill. In such a case the decision will be reviewed, discussed, and voted on again within one month after the decision is called into question.

Decisions which require a majority of votes will still require at least three votes.

Empty seats may not be allowed to remain unfilled. If a seat is empty for one of the reasons in the Removal section above, an election must be held within 45 days.


Other Votes

Raksha and Deathknights may be granted citizenship with 3 votes from the Denandsor council.

Marshals and Sub-councilors require 4 votes to be placed in office, and are removed by 3 votes of the Denandsor Council.



...


Here's the proposal, Loken. All the changes you demanded are in it. Quit stalling and vote on it.
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Re: Election and Removal proposal

Postby blackshade10 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:11 am

Soul sighed as he waited for some kind of response, idly plucking strings on his lyre.



((https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuABhumm6fY On a Lyre!))
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Re: Election and Removal proposal

Postby The Redneck » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:43 am

((been 3 days. Any responses?))
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Re: Election and Removal proposal

Postby Tycon » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:10 am

(Mondays and Tuesdays are usually my longest work days, and I had intended to write a response tonight but time has gotten away form me. I will make an effort to write something up tomorrow.)
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Re: Election and Removal proposal

Postby Tycon » Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:47 am

(I am sorry I am going to have to delay my response here one more day, I got caught up working on the response to current events. I do have an outline and I will finish the write-up tomorrow)
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Re: Election and Removal proposal

Postby Tycon » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:50 am

(“For the Jade and Marble Seats, majority will decided relative to the voting populace.” Should be “For the Jade and Marble Seats, the majority will be decided relative to the voting populace.” This was a typo in my prior post, I am sorry. I am writing this post under the assumption that the correct version is used.)

“The sections were not changed to my specifications, and if they were I would not have objected. As for your little bit of grandstanding Loksha do you think people are so naïve as to not see what you are doing with your accusations? Trying to paint me in a corner so I look bad for trying to be careful about a law that will drastically overhaul how councilors are elected, so I am forced to accept your version?

People are not so stupid. I am sure none of them have forgotten I was the one who originally brought this topic up for debate and made the original proposal. They may not have known I did so already knowing it could be the last thing I do on this council, that I was proposing something that was likely to be first used against me.

I continue doing my best to make sure this is a good law because it will likely be the last thing I do on this council. Who among us wouldn’t want to be sure the last thing we do is the right thing?

Now you have corrected the section on the removal process for the Jade and Marble seats. The section in unfilled seats however has not been updated.

Here is my fear, something that may look benign at the time may get through the council while a seat is empty. And then when the election occurs the benign appearance is combined with distraction to prevent the new councilor from bringing up the law up for review until it is too. We have the spirit of unanimous agreement for our most important laws because every group in this city should have a voice and the ability to keep certain lines from being crossed. That spirit I believe should be maintained and require the active consent of a new councilor rather than accept implicit consent that distraction can be mistaken for. This is meant to be a safeguard and all good safeguards prevent or undo action when the decision to act is in doubt.

Now assuming this section is fixed to require the explicit consent of an incoming councilor then I vote in favor of this law.”

(And in an effort to speed things along I will say OOC assuming the spirit of what Loken wants is there in the final proposal then he votes in favor of the law. And then I suspect the Solar discussion on replacing him can begin.)
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Re: Election and Removal proposal

Postby The Redneck » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:16 am

*Loksha snorts.* Considering you've "tried to be careful" more than a dozen times since your constituents made it clear you do not represent them, you have nobody fooled. Do you truly think nobody else can see it? As you've said--and as I've had to keep remiding you--the people of this city are not stupid. It's good to see you've admitted it, but if you would quit treating them as such, then perhaps the protests would be a bit smaller.

And we already have--inserted at your demand, against my objections--a clause allowing new counselors to call any vote into question:
Unanimous decisions made by an incomplete council can be called into question by new counselors within the first month of their gaining the seat after the absence in which the decision was made. Subsequent counselors will not be able to call into question decisions made by absences that they did not personally fill. In such a case the decision will be reviewed, discussed, and voted on again within one month after the decision is called into question.


If a new Counselor does not like a law passed in his or her absence, it will be repealed. what more can you want, Loken?

*He sighs.* Nonetheless, the people of the city need representation, and have been deprived of it for more than six months. In the interest of fulfilling that need, I'll insert the new language into the proposal. As such:


Counselor Selection:

The group relevant to the vacant seat proposes a Counselor Elect. The Counselor Elect must be validated by the group he or she represents, by that group's chosen methods. Once that validation is complete the candidate takes the Oath of Office, sanctified by a Solar Exalt of the Eclipse Caste, and gains the appropriate Seat as a Counselor. The default process for selecting a Councilor Elect for every group is outlined below. If a group wishes to change their system a proposal must be made to the Denandsor Council outlining the new method, and have the support of at least three quarters of the current members of that group living in the city or its territories.

A member of a group is defined as someone who meets the criteria of the group, and has been living in Denandsor or one its territories for at least 3 months. Once someone is named apart of a specific group, they can only change groups with the approval of their current representative and the current representative of the group they wish to join. If a member has not verified their presence either in person or by verified proxy within 3 months they are no longer considered a member of their former group.

The five groups are recognized as Yugashi, Lookshyans, Solars, Lunars, and the remaining inhabitants of the city. Their membership requirements are as follows:
  • Yugashi: A Yugashi is acknowledged as one by holder of the Gemstone Seat, the Yugashi government, or one of its representatives.
  • Lookshyan: A Lookshyan is a former of age Citizen or Helot of Lookshy, or is accepted into a family of such, or acknowledged as such by the current holder of the Jade Seat.
  • Solar: A Solar is Solar exalt, or a child of such with solar powers and acknowledged as such by the Solar councilor.
  • Lunar: A Lunar is Lunar exalt, or a child of such with lunar powers and acknowledged as such by the Lunar councilor.
  • Not apart of the above: A citizen of Denandsor who is at least 16 years of age and not a member of any other group.

The default processes for selecting a councilor elect are as follows:
  • Gemstone Seat (Yugashi): The holder of the Gemstone Seat is directly appointed by the local Yugashi government, through a notice to the council.
  • Jade Seat (Lookshyan): The holder of the Jade Seat is selected by a majority of votes cast among the voting populace of the Lookshyans, verified by appropriate voting auditors.
  • Gold Seat (Solar): The holder of the Gold Seat is affirmed by a majority of all members of the Solar group before the council. How they are selected is up to the group.
  • Silver Seat (Lunar): The holder of the Silver Seat is affirmed by a majority of all members of the Lunar group before the council. How they are selected is up to the group.
  • Marble Seat (Everyone else): The holder of the Marble Seat is selected by a majority of votes cast amongthe voting populace of those not affiliated with another group.


Eligibility

To be eligible for the position of Councillor, the nominee must fulfill the following requirements:

  • S/he must be a resident of Denandsor.
  • S/he must have lived in Denandsor for at least 3 seasons.
  • S/he must not be part of the Sub-Council of Election Supervision. If a nominee attempts to become a Councillor, they surrender their place in the Sub-Council Pool (See below)
  • S/he may not have committed crimes which, according to the judiciary committee, would make him/her ineligible for office


Elections

For those groups that choose elections, when an election is called for the position of a Councillor, the affected group have one season to tally nominees and make their decision. Nominee should state their intention to run for the position at the beginning of this period, but if all nominees are slain, captured or otherwise rendered incapable of participating, others may join in the race later then the start.

During the Season, the nominee are free to garner support, with the following restrictions:

  • S/he may not use charms, sorcery or artifacts that warp another's mind in an unnatural fashion. Charms or other factors that allow a candidate to speak more persuasively or better understand the group's desires are explicitly permitted.
  • S/he may not use threats of violence, blackmail or other types of extortion to garner votes.
  • S/he may not try to frame election violations on other nominees.
  • S/he may not try to rig the selection of Observers.
  • S/he may not employ others to commit the above actions on his/hers behalf.

The election will be supervised by the Sub-Council of Election Supervision, who can vote on whether or not a violation has occurred. Nominee should keep in mind that the Sub-Council are encouraged to use their own discretion to follow the SPIRIT of the rule, rather then the letter, and any attempt to circumvent it or trying to be clever about it will likely result in being ruled to be in violation of the rule. Any nominee who are judged to be in violation is immediately disqualified. Any nominee who is ruled to be in violation in three separate elections (or especially horrendous breaches) is barred from taking part in future elections and will face legal repercussions to match the crime.

The final vote is cast at the end of the season and the winner is decided. Citizens who are away from the city at this time on official business--such as soldiers on campaign--may cast their vote by proxy. The Councillor swears the sanctified oath of office and may begin serving.


The Sub-Council of Election Supervision

This three-member sub-council is a temporary one that comes together whenever an election is to be held and use the title 'Observer'. The role of the sub-council is to watch the election procedure for violations and report them as appropriate.

The Sub-Council has a rotating cast of Observers, to prevent the accumulation of power or sloth, and the sitting panel is replaced with every election. Every Councillor may nominate two Observers, who are then added to a pool, and the panel of observers are decided by lottery. Observers swear a sanctified oath to do their duty with honesty and integrity, and let nothing tempt them from doing so.

The nomination of an Observer may be blocked by a majority vote of the Council.


Removal

A Councillor can be removed from his position in the following ways.

  • If s/he is convicted of any crime in which the Judicial sub-council recommends the counselor's removal from office, or in which the counselor is prevented (such as by imprisonment) from performing his or her duties. Counselors indicted for crimes may not be tried by the Council--if a Justice Sub-comittee is unable to reach a unanimous judgement three times in a row, the majority opinion of all nine judges shall determine the guilt of the accused.
  • By a vote of no confidence by a majority of the Councillor's Representative group (a petition containing at least 10% of the group, or a minimum of two people, can call for such a vote. Each subsequent petition for a vote of no confidence within a five-year period will require an additional 10% of the voting population--the second must contain at least 20% to be valid, the third must contain 30%, etc.--to a maximum of 50%) When such a petition is brought to the Council, the Counselor may dispute its veracity, in which case one month will be given to investigation by the Sub-Council of Election Supervision. For the Gold and Silver Seats, this vote will be taken of all of-age members of the corresponding group. For the Jade and Marble Seats, majority will decided relative to the voting populace.
  • In case of the Yugashi counselor, by decision of the Yugashi government via a notice to the Council.
  • If the counselor should die, resign, or abandon his or her duties for more than one month without stated reason or expectation that he or she will return.

If a Councillor is removed, a new election is called with all the rules mentioned above.


Unfilled Seats

While the Council has less than its full complement of five members:

Decisions which would normally require unanimous consent among the Council may not change any current law (although new law may be established) or modify election procedures in any way.

Unanimous decisions made by an incomplete council must be approved by any counselors filling seats that were empty when the decision was made. If this approval is not granted within one month of taking office, the decision is reversed.

Decisions which require a majority of votes will still require at least three votes.

Empty seats may not be allowed to remain unfilled. If a seat is empty for one of the reasons in the Removal section above, an election must be held within 45 days.


Other Votes

Raksha and Deathknights may be granted citizenship with 3 votes from the Denandsor council.

Marshals and Sub-councilors require 4 votes to be placed in office, and are removed by 3 votes of the Denandsor Council.


This has my vote, Loken. If you were at all telling the truth, it has your vote too.

*Loksha looks around.* Everyone else?
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Re: Election and Removal proposal

Postby Tycon » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:33 am

(I am not combing through it again tonight, not after everything else. But assuming the only change was the bit Loken wanted he would have voted yes right away)
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Re: Election and Removal proposal

Postby admin » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:55 am

Yes
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