Yes... THAT charm!

Questions about rules or mechanics

Yes... THAT charm!

Postby Saana » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:05 pm

Hello everyone!

As a total Sidereal newbie, maybe a more experienced player or an ST well versed in the mechanic of the game could help me out understanding the following charm:

Blade of the Battle maiden
(p. 182)
Cost: 5m, 1wp
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious
Replace the text of this Charm with the following:
Crimson ribbons of Essence trail from the Sidereal’s hands, the strands of a martial destiny waiting to be seized. This crimson nimbus allows the martial artist to both deal lethal damage and parry lethal attacks while unarmed, and enchants her natural attacks with the traits of a stametal daiklave (except for clinches).
Alternatively, the martial artist may invoke this Charm to invoke a form weapon she wields, granting it the magical material bonus of starmetal and rendering it as indestructible as an attuned artifact. It also benefits from the reduced target number for damage.


I looked all over the place and there are -at least- 10 different ways to read the charm, and I am not even talking about the rewrites! So here are my questions (of course, it's the second part of the charm that is prolematic, it can also be a case of poor understanding as English is not my native language):
- What do they mean by Invoking a form weapon you weild?
It might be me, but isn't invoking related to summoning something. If I got this right, those it allows me to summon a Starmetal Daiklaive out of Essence or does it enhance a form weapon you are actively using?

- If the form weapon is already a starmetal artifact, what does it do?

- "It also benefit from the reduced target number for damage": Is it an editing failure or is the Charm supposed to reduce the target number for damage (giving it an advantage to use the charm outside of unarmed combat)?

If those silly questions have already been answered, please point me in the right direction as I spent the last hour searching and came up empty!

Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer and happy gaming!
Saana
 
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Re: Yes... THAT charm!

Postby Inaba » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:20 pm

Saana wrote:
- What do they mean by Invoking a form weapon you weild?
It might be me, but isn't invoking related to summoning something. If I got this right, those it allows me to summon a Starmetal Daiklaive out of Essence or does it enhance a form weapon you are actively using?

- If the form weapon is already a starmetal artifact, what does it do?


You can add the starmetal-bonus to your form-weapon, that's all.

If it is already made from starmetal the charm doesn't do much. The interesting question is:
Does the Bonus replace any other MM-Bonus you might have or does it stack.
I'd go with 'it stacks' but that's just my opinion.

Saana wrote:- "It also benefit from the reduced target number for damage": Is it an editing failure or is the Charm supposed to reduce the target number for damage (giving it an advantage to use the charm outside of unarmed combat)?

I suppose it is an editing error. Perhaps there is some charm that reduces the target_number for damage when fighting unarmed or with starmetal-weapons.
Inaba
 
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Re: Yes... THAT charm!

Postby Grymmwalker » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:09 pm

If the weapon is already Starmetal, it really does very little. What it does is make it so that any valid form weapon is treated as an artifact weapon made of Starmetal in that it gains the Starmetal MM bonus and the indestructibility of an artifact.

As far as how it interacts with other MM bonuses, the language that is used implies that the charm only affects weapons that do not benefit from an MM bonus already. I would say that it would not have any effect or possibly to replace said bonus while the charm is in effect. Even if this were the case, it would not reduce the cost for a Sidereal to attune an artifact that is made of a different MM than Starmetal. However, if this were a concern, then you already have an artifact weapon and would still have to commit 5m, 1wp to activate the charm for the scene, which is a greater cost than simply paying the extra motes to attune the artifact in the first place.

Based on the nature of Sidereal charms, this charm is meant to allow them to turn their hands or whatever mundane form weapon they may have on hand into formidable weapons worthy of an Exalt. Consequently, the form weapons are knives, swords, staves and seven-section staves, 3 of which are like to be readily available just about anywhere in Creation.
Stirling Moonblossom (Sidereal - Serenity) and Forsaken in Darkness (Lunar - No Moon)
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Re: Yes... THAT charm!

Postby Inaba » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:46 pm

Of course a star-metal daiklaive will almost always be better than a mundane form-weapon with a MM-attached, so fighting unarmed will porbably the better option stat-wise.
That said, it is probably a bit more subtle to slice and dice your opponents with a steel-sword than your bare hands. I hear Sidierals have a thing for subtlety.
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Re: Yes... THAT charm!

Postby Saana » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:10 pm

As far as how it interacts with other MM bonuses, the language that is used implies that the charm only affects weapons that do not benefit from an MM bonus already. I would say that it would not have any effect or possibly to replace said bonus while the charm is in effect. Even if this were the case, it would not reduce the cost for a Sidereal to attune an artifact that is made of a different MM than Starmetal. However, if this were a concern, then you already have an artifact weapon and would still have to commit 5m, 1wp to activate the charm for the scene, which is a greater cost than simply paying the extra motes to attune the artifact in the first place.


Actually, the equipement stacking section of the errata is pretty clear about this. When you have multiple equipement bonus, only the best apply for a given value (Magical Material bonus is a kind of equipement bonus. So, for exemple, If I use an Orichalcum daiklaive (+2 accuracy, +2 defense) and then activate Blade of the Battle Maiden to give the Starmetal bonus to said Daiklaive (+1 acc, +3 damage) the stats of said weapon would be altered as follows:

+2 acc, +3 damage, +2 defense

The +1 acc bonus from Starmetal is discarded in favor of the +2 acc of Orichalcum. And yes, it's pretty costy for a small bonus, the main advantage is to fight with your fists.

All right, thanks for the clarifications!
Saana
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:56 pm

Re: Yes... THAT charm!

Postby Grymmwalker » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:39 pm

Yes, it is certainly more overt of a use of power to decapitate something with your bare hand. Hence the second paragraph of the charm allowing them to enhance other weapons.

Actually, the equipement stacking section of the errata is pretty clear about this. When you have multiple equipement bonus, only the best apply for a given value (Magical Material bonus is a kind of equipement bonus. So, for exemple, If I use an Orichalcum daiklaive (+2 accuracy, +2 defense) and then activate Blade of the Battle Maiden to give the Starmetal bonus to said Daiklaive (+1 acc, +3 damage) the stats of said weapon would be altered as follows:

+2 acc, +3 damage, +2 defense

The +1 acc bonus from Starmetal is discarded in favor of the +2 acc of Orichalcum. And yes, it's pretty costy for a small bonus, the main advantage is to fight with your fists.


Could an ST give some input on this? The Errata says this:

Bonus Stacking
Bonuses from equipment (including magical material bonuses) do not stack with one another; the character enjoys only the best among his various modifiers. For example, a Dragon-Blooded character with a jade daiklave and jade hearthstone bracers would only lower his Speed by one point—the two magical material bonuses will not stack to produce Speed -2. Likewise, a character wearing lamellar armor and a magic girdle that provides armored soak enjoys only the higher of the two soak ratings—they do not stack together.


The charm adds the enhancement directly to the weapon in question so I am unsure. If it does, then I would think that it would displace it. If, however the charm is handled as a separate bonus attached to the user, such as those imparted by another artifact, then it would be covered by the language used in the Bonus Stacking entry in the Errata. Personally, now that it is called out, I feel that the latter it more likely the case and would actually alleviate the wonky language that was used in the charm's errata entry.
Last edited by Grymmwalker on Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stirling Moonblossom (Sidereal - Serenity) and Forsaken in Darkness (Lunar - No Moon)
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Re: Yes... THAT charm!

Postby Inaba » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:47 pm

And like a lot of Sidie-charms it get`s better when you try to think outside the immediately obvious applications.
Knives are a form-weapon. They are also throwable.
Artifact-knives make for really expensive ammunition, but steel ones with Starmetal-boni are not a bad choice if you want to keep your distance.
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